[NRVR-Members] Anyone Ever Use RCS Motors?

Mon Jun 4 09:40:33 CDT 2018

Noting, of course, that I'm still not appropriately certified, and won't
mess with anything until I am ... (Level 1 at June or July launch; Level 2
by October, hopefully).

I'm still very interested, including (maybe "especially") the machining
side of it (though still trying to find room in the budget, and garage, for
a lathe :-) ).

On Sun, Jun 3, 2018 at 12:46 AM, Thomas Tweeks Weeks <tom at theweeks.org>
wrote:

> Thanks for the great reply Chris..
>
> I know you've gone all hard core, home-brew lathing etc.. I don't think
> we're there.. Especially since the majority of our launches here (with our
> 10k waiver that we rarely break 8k on) and while we have flown some 98mm
> here.. we mainly fly on 75mm and lower (a lot of 54.. and a ton of 38mm).
>
> Yeah.. a couple NRVR have members have mixed before.. and we're to that
> point that a few of us are starting to sniff at doing it.  You make a great
> point about all choosing to go with the approximate same research motor
> hardware so we can settle on standard/same liners, grain dimensions, molds,
> share parts, etc.  The VT student group just got a static test rig too, and
> we're getting a nice (long distance) wireless LC system.. so we're in a
> good place to start playing around with mixing and doing motor tests.
>
> Tell me.. do you have a dedicated test casing with tapped pressure
> transducers?  Kind of.. one for testing and one for flying? (just curious)
>
>
> Sounds like we should discuss some of these points you bring up.. just to
> get the most out of it "as a club".
>
> If anyone else has any thoughts.. please chime in.  I'm not so much
> leading the discussion as much as I am just poking people to get a sense of
> people's thoughts who are interested in it.
>
> Tweeks
>
>
>
> On Saturday, June 2, 2018 6:15pm, "Maier.chris" <maier.chris at gmail.com>
> said:
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > NRVR-Members mailing list
> > NRVR-Members at mail.nrvr.org
> > http://server2.nrvr.org/mailman/listinfo/nrvr-membersTWeeks,
> >
> > I think the Aerotech hardware & reloads have all been tested and are NAR
> approved
> > true commercial reloads.  The RCS components at one point may or may not
> have been
> > as completely tested as the Aerotech stuff and was therefore
> > “experimental”.  Not sure if that’s still true these days.
> >
> > Most experimental motors work just fine in the Aerotech or RCS hardware
> that is
> > 75/76 mm and smaller - as long as you get a casting set & liner that fit
> the
> > hardware properly....  At 98mm and above, I buy quality aluminum tube
> and have it
> > machined myself.  I have a lathe that I can build closures and graphite
> nozzles
> > on.  This typically leaves me with a tube that isn’t anodized, which is
> > actually sub optimal - I need to set up an anodizing rig.  Building your
> own tubes
> > isn’t “better”, I do it simply because it can be more cost
> > effective since I’m not getting “DOM” material (drawn over
> > mandrel). DOM is horridly expensive and there are minimum quantities
> that no
> > single user would be able to afford or use if it’s not a stocked
> dimension.
> > If a supplier has some left over DOM material, or it’s a dimension they
> > stock, it’s 1.5x or more the price of plain tube.  But plain tube
> > isn’t as round and wall thickness varies significantly more than DOM.  I
> was
> > REALLY bummed out when tru-core quit making cases.  Loki is a great
> alternative,
> > just slightly more expensive.
> >
> > Rocket motors, much like the camera “Cannon vs Nikon” debate (non
> > professional photography) really boils down to - what do your friends
> and family
> > have so you can borrow things.  Rocket motor hardware, IMHO, works
> similarly - buy
> > what the majority of your friends have so you can borrow, trade, and
> sell parts
> > and reloads with each other.  Or if you are doing Ex motor casting with
> your
> > friends, you don’t have to worry about confusing liners and casting tubes
> > that are incompatible with one another (Loki vs gorilla vs Aerotech
> etc).  We have
> > mixing parties here, and four or five guys will show up.  So not having
> to run
> > specific batches and not have to pay super close attention to the liners
> etc is
> > beneficial to us.
> >
> > Last but not least, if you are doing Ex motor mixing, just like your
> ejection
> > charges, you should be testing your motors - at least a representative
> diameter in
> > order to validate your pressure assumptions, burn rates, and all that
> Jazz.  Only
> > then will you know if you actually have a “super aggressive” motor and
> > then you can make alternative hardware selections if necessary.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >> On Jun 2, 2018, at 16:28, Thomas Tweeks Weeks <tom at theweeks.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Yeah Bob.. that's what's confusing. I assumed if RCS was there for the
> research
> >> motor community, that their casings would necessarily have the
> thicker/heavier
> >> casing walls to handle some of the challenges of research loads... no?
> All I see
> >> is fiberlgass casings, so I'm not guessing you get to reuse all the
> parts (just
> >> the closures and the nozzles a few rimes?).
> >>
> >> Is Loki and others recommended over RCS hardware for fully reusable
> "aggressive"
> >> research/DIY hardware?
> >>
> >> They seem to be really well equipped.. and sell everything that's
> needed...
> >>
> >> Tweeks
> >>
> >> On Saturday, June 2, 2018 7:33am, "Bob Schoner" <bob.schoner at gmail.com>
> said:
> >>
> >> Yes Gary Rosenfield started and is the owner or Aerotech. He also
> started
> >> Rosenfield consulting services (RCS) maybe 10 years ago to service the
> research
> >> community.
> >>
> >> If you’ve flown Aerotech motors, you have used RCS stuff. I think the
> >> disclaimer is meant to say that the commercial hardware does not have
> the wall
> >> thickness needed if you are making very aggressive propellants. It
> seems to hold
> >> up just fine with aggressive AT reloads, but generally people doing
> research use
> >> thicker walled cases like Loki, AMW, and Mostly Missiles. In my
> experience this
> >> is what I’ve seen.
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>> On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 7:15 AM David Bloom <dwskb at att.net> wrote:
> >>> Yes.  Our emails crossed.
> >>> --------------------------------------------
> >>> On Sat, 6/2/18, Adrien Drouault <adrien.drouault at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>  Subject: Re: [NRVR-Members] Anyone Ever Use RCS Motors?
> >>>  To: "NRV Rocketry Members" <nrvr-members at server2.nrvr.org>
> >>>  Date: Saturday, June 2, 2018, 2:33 AM
> >>>
> >>>  Correct me
> >>>  if I'm wrong, but isn't Aerotech the
> >>>  "hobby" arm of RCS?
> >>>  On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at
> >>>  11:35 PM, Thomas Tweeks Weeks <tom at theweeks.org>
> >>>  wrote:
> >>>  Just
> >>>  curious if anyone's ever used these motors?
> >>>  https://www.rocketmotorparts.
> >>>  com/
> >>>
> >>>  Chris
> >>>  Maier?
> >>>
> >>>  Very
> >>>  interesting stuff..  Looks like all research and DIY based
> >>>  stuff.
> >>>
> >>>  Tweeks
> >>>  ______________________________
> >>>  _________________
> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  --
> >>>  --Quid quid latine dictum
> >>>  sit altum viditar.
> >>>
> >>>  _______________________________________________
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >> _______________________________________________
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> >
>
>
>
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-- 
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*Quid quid latine dictum sit altum viditar.*
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